Potential RV buyers are having difficulty obtaining loans for new RVs
RV customers have all but disappeared
Inventories of all RV types are stacking up and not moving
Dealers can’t afford to carry the unsold inventory
Manufacturers don’t have the financial capital to carry them through this crisis
Manufacturers who are traded publicly have seen their stock prices fall relentlessly making it difficult if not impossible to raise new operating capital
I am not expecting the patient to live much longer. In fact, I’ll be surprised if any RV manufacturers come out of this alive. You may think I’m blowing smoke on this issue, but I assure you our Humpty Dumpty economy will not be put back together again. In fact, things will never be the same again despite what all the king’s horses and all the king’s men try to do. Here are the facts driving a stake into the heart of the RV industry:Unemployment is increasing and will continue to climb making discretionary purchases such as a new RV out of the question.
Pension funds and 401k retirement accounts have lost so much money people are postponing retirement. This is significant because retirees represent a large segment when it comes to purchasing “big ticket” RVs. I won’t bore you with the details, but public pension funds have lost billions of dollars so far this year (most have lost over 20%).
How does your average baby boomer afford to buy a $350,000 motorhome? They were counting on selling their home for a handsome profit and motoring off into the Arizona desert for the winter. Forget it! Housing prices have fallen off a cliff. Nearly 20% of U.S. mortgages are under water (meaning folks owe more than their house is worth) which represents 7.5 million properties. This condition will continue to grow worse as time progresses. The era of easy money and home equity loans are a thing of the past. I once used a $25,000 home equity check along with a personal check to purchase a new 5th wheel. In the past RV dealerships saw many of these financial instruments used to buy new RVs but not anymore.
The big three U.S. automakers are just months away from filing bankruptcy. The government may come to the rescue but don’t count on a government bailout of the RV industry. The health of the auto industry is directly related to it’s cousin the RV industry. What is happening to the automobile industry is happening to the RV sector magnified many times.
Consider this October 28th Wall Street Journal article quote by Kate Linebaugh: “With credit drying up and new-vehicle sales slumping to a 25-year low, car dealerships from New Jersey to California are going out of business at an accelerating pace, threatening greater economic pain for communities around the country. The National Automobile Dealers Association estimates 700 new-car dealerships will close this year, up from 430 last year, and taking with them an estimated 37,100 jobs around the country.”
I’ve lost count of the many RV manufacturers who have gone out of business or have cut employment this year.
The trucking industry and heavy equipment sector is also on the ropes. Companies like Volvo, the second largest maker of commercial trucks, have seen orders for new trucks plummet this year. Caterpillar is also worried. “Next year, no doubt, will be a challenge,” Caterpillar’s chief executive, James W. Owens, recently warned.I can give you another dozen reasons why the RV industry as we know it is dying, but you’re savvy readers and already see the handwriting on the wall. So what should you do given this information?
If you plan on keeping your current RV, then make sure everything works and pick up any spare parts you need to keep it going in the next few years. If you need warranty work, get it done before your dealer goes out of business. If you plan to shop for a good used RV, there will be plenty to be had at bargain basement prices in the months ahead as unemployed folks liquidate their assets to pay down debt.
Reporting from the intensive care waiting room - Jim Twamley, Professor of RVing
58 comments:
I agree with most of what you say Jim. The economy is in the worst shape of my lifetime (66 yrs.) and getting worse every day. Just today 2 more banks failed (became insolvent!). On the other hand, I bought a 2002 fifth wheel about 3 months ago, I'm retired and now is the time to use it and have fun. For me and millions of others like me, it's now or never! So for that reason I think a skelton of the former RV industry will continue to subsist for a few years till recovery begins.
I'll give you our perspective and how we're dealing with it.
We sold our house, started full timing in 2000 and have enjoyed nearly 10 years of this wonderful lifestyle. Have made many new friends, enjoyed seeing many new places and wouldn't trade anything for the time we've spent together on the road.
Ironically, we were home with our fifth wheel in storage buying a new truck to begin our treck out West when fuel prices began their climb followed by the financial crisis.
Both of us have jobs, are healthy and are staying in a great condo owned by a family member. We are enjoying life, taking things a day at a time and are positioning ourselves to return to the road as soon as we feel financially comfortable about doing so.
My Dad always said "If you're given lemons, make lemonade!"
Tania and Dave George
Currently in Rochester, NY
The strong RV manufacturers will survive. The weak ones were probably making inferior coaches & trailers anyway. I believe that in the end we'll still have RVing, it may just look a little different. I would caution buying that "great deal" of a MH or trailer from a company that may not be around long.
Our dashed retirement dreams consisted of winters in Arizona in a Class A MH. We are now looking for a lightweight TT under 4000lbs that our older MDX with V6 can handle. We owned a German built Hobby 23' (1500 lbs) 10 years ago and loved hauling it. Manufactures have to seriousily look at lighter rigs, the europeans can do it why can't we. If we came into some extra money then a View would be our choice as this drop in fuel prices will only last until OPEC creates another shortage and drives the prices (profits) back up. Retired in Eastern Canada
With millions of RVers, maybe a million of them fulltimers, I do not believe the industry will totally collapse. The high priced motorhomes will always have a group with just so much money that they are not really hurt enough to give up the rv lifestyle. And a 20 - 30% drop in home values, while it hurts, pales in comparison to the 100 - 200% increase in home values over the last 5 years. The people really hurt are those that bought in nthe last few years and grossly overpaid. Remember, this has happened before. In the late 80's and early 90's the economy dumped (not as bad as now) and rv sales slowed way down. It will be a while but the industry came back. The manufacturers who really need to worry are the ones with poor quality reputations, under financed, etc. Companies like Fleetwood fit this description but does have the advantage of building a full range of Rvs, all the way from pop ups, low - mid - and high priced towables and of course a wide range of motorhomes.
Jim's blog is what I believe to be a "worse case senario" of the industry. Existing inventories of new and used will keep the stronger dealerships alive until 2010 when hopefully a stronger economy and better stock prices will put more retirees on the road again. Gas/fuel prices will be bottomed out, and there should be a surge of interest in rving.
Sadly, the surviving companies will likely be those same companies that have created wider margins of profit by building lessor quality products.
Denny
www.rvfactor.blogspot.com
I'll admit - it's an interesting perspective, but I'm not sure I agree completely with your assessment, at least not right now.
I believe that if RVing is to survive, it's going to have to adapt. And part of that adaptation includes going back to the core RV business model; camping.
I've taken out my 19-foot class C out every weekend I could this year. Campgrounds are busy, and most of them are full, especially on the weekends. The need to relax from a hard weeks work, or to just being around real nature, hasn't changed. People may not drive as far as they did in previous years, but they are still traveling.
Lastly, my father told me when I was a teenager, "Never take out a loan on something you use once and a while". It made sense then, and it makes more sense now. I have several friends that took out a loan to go camping - where is the sense in that? Average loan on a $13000 camper is $280 a month. If you go out 6 times a year, you are spending over $560 a weekend to camp.
Credit is great, used wisely, and we as a nation are not using it wisely at all right now. The RV industry is going to have to face the same facts as the automotive, and even the housing, industries.
Jim, I think your correct. The big Buses are history. I think that Class C and especially Class B vans such as Pleasure-way and Road Trek may survive as they are cheap to keep, and fuel efficient. Class A's will be parked as used as second getaway homes.
We purchased used last yr a 1983 Fleetwood Jamboree with less than 24,000 miles and stored and used for 12 yrs. After some initial investment to update a few things, she is in tip top shape,all original in excellent condition, except for the updates which are new.
She gets about 9 miles to the gal and when prices were way up that was horrid, but still cheaper than motels.
We have yet to update the furnace. All we need is a fan motor but have found they do not make that model anymore so when funds present themselves we will buy a new furnace. Then she is complete, no rust even. We get so many wonderful comments about our "vintage" RV.
I think I feel the same way about my RV that Chuck does. I would sell my house first before my RV.
I can be totally mobile, visit relatives, see the sights. This RV came in very handy when my dad got sick and was transferred to an out of state hospital 3 hours away. We were able to boondock in the parking lot those 10 days.
It is truly sad about the RV industry. We are hoping it comes back.
More than likely I will never buy a $350,000 Class A. My Class C is just perfect for the two of us. Although hubby complains a little about the back bed , but hey you are suppose to enjoy yourself all day and only sleep there anyway.
With todays technology, there is no reason the RV industry can not make a good size Class A with great gas mileage, and keep it way under those exhorbant prices they ask for them. When folks stop buying the huge monsters, that will make the smaller versions easier to obtain, and last a long time.
Until then, thanks but no thanks to the big ones. I can park anywhere a full size pickup can park.
I love it, and buying used last year was really smart for us.
terrie
Jim makes some valid comments but on the whole it may be a little too extreme to say the entire RV industry is in terminal decline. Let's face it the RV industry has become overpopulated and not always to the benefit of the consumer. The companies which will not survive are probably those that don't deserve to, for a variety of reasons, mostly in my view, because they made an inferior product. The old adage of "you get what you pay for" is still very much alive and overall I think it is the bottom end of the manufacturing market which will vanish first. There will always be a demand for RV's of all sizes and it will be the companies that make good products and diversify across the range of demand size wise, that will overcome. I have just moved into retirement and have looked at the downturn as an opportunity and not a challenge. Again, all of our lives we are confronted with negatives but for every negative there exists a positive and for every person who suffers in this economic downturn there will be an equal number who seize the opportunity and benefit from it. I looked at this time as the perfect time to buy my Country Coach. It will never be cheaper. Quality companies will prevail and it will be to our ultimate long term benefit that the rubbish is shaken out of the industry now.
I agree with your assessment. The RV indistry is not a necessity like the big 3 auto makers are. An RV is a discressionary purchase made with money you do not need to survive on. Those kind of buyers are now starting to get few and far between. I doubt many of the "small" camping style RV manufacturers will survive simply because folks won't have the money to spend on something they do not really need and won't use but a few weeks or days out of the year. A tent is simply far far more affordable and makes far more sense than an RV for those who just wish to camp.
People are having to make hard choices about what they buy and an RV is way down the scale when you have to choose between rent (mortgage) food, gas and clothing. Especially when your job may be on the line. If you can't afford the necessities to live, toys do not make any sense at all and for most campers an RV IS a toy.
It's like dominoes stacked on the table, if the sales end doesn't make it, the support functions like parts and service won't either and that goes for all levels of the RV cost spectrum. It's the folks who buy the little RV's that cut back on purchases first since they have the least amount of discressionary funds to begin with.
Jim, do you remember the 1970's and early 80"s, pretty tough time for the RV industry, the car industry and the economy in general, yet the industry is still here.
Are we in trouble as a nation, of course, will we go into a depression, without improvements we will, was there a car industry before 1929, and RV industry, a boat industry, etc yep they were all here and despite the depression of 29 they are still here.
Will the turnaround be fast I doubt it personally the main problem I see is the loss of jobs in the US and us good citizens buying out of the country products that have killed our manufacturing industries and jobs here.
When TV's and other consumer goods were made here there were good jobs, not now, those folks have been retrained to the service industries, ie Mc Donalds, Walmart clerks, etc, can you live on those wages and benefits nevertheless have disposable income to camp or boat or recreate with?
We just cancelled our corporate 800 long distance service with MCI, its now hiring in the Phillipines and I for one have decided to support the jobs in the U.S. not overseas employers as much as possible.
OH, by the way the RV financing business is still here and the banks are still making loans, we are still processing RV loans everyday no matter what the news tells you, slightly better credit is required than a year ago but hardly a huge difference that the news promotes you to believe.
We had fallen into the same mindset the mortgage business had, overfinance the value of the RV and now the banks will not allow the overfinancing that they had in the past which in the long term will be a good thing. So now instead of no down, or bought down interest rates there are RV financing loans and rates that are real and protect your investment and your financial future instead of promoting financial disaster in the future which is what we are now living through with the mortgage industry leading the way!
Need an RV loan, we are now in our 11th year online processing millions of dollars worth of RV loans each year.
Charles Davis
www.RVfinancing.com
So, with all the dealers going broke, where are all the motohomes ending up that were once on the sales lot? I want to buy a new class A diesel!
Those that think Jim's point of view is extreme haven't seen the big picture yet. We sold our home and went full time over 2 years ago, and are thanking our good fortune at selling just befor the market dropped out in NV. We bought a new fifthwheel in march of 2007, got our final warently work done this past March, and our dealer went belly up this summer as have several others we know of.
We aren't retired, and are so thankful we acted when we did.
maybe now the prices will get real. baby boomers have ruined everything they have touched from coffee to rvs. they have been instramental in raising the prices to unbelievable levels. lets hope that now real fulltimers will be able to survive the crunch
I agree with your comment. Sometimes we keep hoping for the best, and afraid to see what is right in front of us. We had planned to take early retirment next year, build a log retirement home in WI, and hit the road in our Dolphin 34F for the winter months. We had planned on this for a long time and had been working on the particulars with excitement. Now that we are in the final stages of our plan and counting months to our early retirement, all went south! Our 401K took a drastic hit, we can't find a bank willing to take on a log home construction loan in WI right now, despite our excellent credit rating, and our manufacture for our RV went belly up. After meeting with our financial advisor recently, he recommended stalling our early retirement. No sense quiting our good paying jobs with excellent benefits, and then find ourselves having to find another job, at less pay and maybe no benefits, just to make ends meet. So now, we have altered our retirement plans. If things don't start improving, we will no longer be retiring early, but living in our RV fulltime, while we work, just to save money. I don't know what we would have done, if we didn't have the RV for our weekend 'camping trips' by the ocean or in the forests. In fact with the recent drop in the gas prices, we actually took a 5 day road trip, just to have the feel our Condo on Wheels on the road again. Here's hoping things improve and we all can get back to our dreams.
Yes the economy is bad. I believe who won the election has a lot to do with businesses laying off and closing. Son owns a small business and is already getting ready for the big tax on his business. Laying off several employees so he can afford to operate. He has friends that are moving over seas so they don't have to pay the big tax on their business. Their employee's jobs are going overseas. They can't afford to operate in the USA with that high tax the new president is going to put on small businesses.
Going to be a tough 4 years for small and big business for sure!
I'm in my 70s, fortunately we got a good 3 years of traveling the US before the fuel put us out of the business. I'm sympathetic for RVers, but in some cases the gross high markup, high profit, low service dealers and shoddy and unreliable manufacturer's are getting their payback. I hope the good ones make it to the rebound which WILL come, but when?
There are large numbers of Rv'ers who will continue without a $250,000 bus. The use of "average babyboomer" is out of context for those babyboomers that I know. Very very few snowbirds I travel with have much cheaper units and they will eventually buy new ones. The Rv industry will not die only change.
D.C.B.
I agree that times are tough for the RV industry as we know it. But, creative manufacturers will come up with lower cost, high gas mileage, smaller RVs that many of us will pay for in cash. Debt is not your friend.
Rich
The key thing Jim said was "as we know it". I'll continue to RV. The industry took off like a rocket after 9-11-01. People stopped flying and started using RVs more. I don't intend to ever fly again unless it's an emergency.I'm 60 and RVing is our retirement plan.
Jim
Have you ever heard of chicken little. Sure the sky is falling in, but seems like it always appears in the Morning. You sound like all the National News services, you,d rather dwell on the problems and promote it rather then look at all the great things that happen around us.
Think you should look into an attitude adjustment.
We are driving back from Las Vegas to Northern California in our Class A motorhome.
Regarding high fuel prices, California is always in the top 2 of the highest prices in the nation. Well, we fueled with diesel on our way down and paid less than we paid last Feb/Mar on our 7,000 mile trip to Florida and back. In fact, the price was less than any of the stops we made (even Texas, MS, etc). The highest difference was $1.00 and the smallest was $.10. I know it could go back up, but right now it is cheaper and that is good news.
Regarding, the motorhoming industry on its’ last legs. Well, we called an RV park in Vegas that has 700 sites, before leaving to see if it was necessary to have a reservation. They said they only had 2 spots for the short time period we needed. We thought they were exaggerating but booked it anyway! Glad we did, because they we packed.
New buyers may be on hold. People like us to may have wanted to upgrade may put buying a new MH on hold. Although, I hear they are pretty much giving away Class A’s to get them off their lots. So maybe if you can swing it, it is a good time to buy.
We love our motorhome and haven’t really found anything else we liked whether we could afford it or not. We are considering have some things refurbed or upgraded. I am sure that will be what lots of us decide to do. Which will help the “rv remodel” businesses.
There are always winners and losers in a downturn. Realize things aren’t great, but in the late seventies mortgage rates were 18% (we bought a home and the builder “bought down” the loan to 11 3/4%!! A real deal!) and unemployment was in the double digits.
We are a resilient country and we will get out of this just like we have in the past. I liked the comment about making “lemonade out of lemons”!
Jim,
You better sell or give away your RV if you can, of coarse. I doubt if anyone would want it because it's filled with so much pessimistic negativity. Then crawl into a hole and wait for the world to end.
SC
I agree that the RV industry is in sad shape now, and probably will be for a while. As for losing all the manufacturers, at this stage of the game I feel confident to say that there will always be RV's made, they just will not be as we see them right now. TO those of you who are wanting to trade for a new unit, ask yourselves, "Is it NECESSARY, or WANT the reason to get new. If necessary, there are ways to work around getting a new unit if you use your main computer (IE brain) if WANT you can use the same tactics as NECESSARY, or better yet, is the unit able to be refurbished for less than the cost of a new unit ? IF so, then refurbish and wait until things improve. I feel any true dyed in the wool RVer worth his or her salt, will FIND a way around the problem, just might take a bit longer than immediately in a lot of cases. SO I say to all RVers, "CAMP ON" and enjoy and may you always have the secret to that next great adventure around that next bend up the road.
Jim, My husband worked in the rv Industry for over 30 years, and yes it is bad.We lived in the elkhart, in. area, the r.v. Capital of the world. There are a few factorys left and I think they will hang in there because they have a good product. There will allways be camping. The ones that won't survive are the ones that pretty much hired anyone who walked in the door. Alot of them smoked their lunch and no one really cared because they needed the help. We are fill time and only 54 years old. We refused to wait until we were older, I have buried to many of our friends that always waited to enjoy life.Our kids are raised and we sold our home before the bottom fell out of the market. The good Lord has always looked out for us and we have been blessed with jobs every where we go. We will continue to enjoy life and hang in there until this mess is resolved.
have all the mountains been knoched down and all the birds been shot.? no? then get out in the RV and enjoy the good life..
I agree with you Jim that big things are happening, some of which are creating very difficult personal situations for many individuals and families. Businesses will continue to close, and those that remain may be shaken to their roots.
I don't agree with your conclusions though. Times of tremendous change can feel dire when looked at from one angle, but they are also our best opportunities for innovation and reflection: taking a fresh look at what we value, i.e. what we expend time, energy and resources (of all kinds) on.
This is a perfect time to move dramatically away from the norm of huge vehicles and RVs that consume resources at unsustainable levels. It is the perfect time as individuals to find new ways to live: ways that would have been familiar in their broad strokes to our grandparents. Stay out of debt, except to purchase a house. Put as much down on the house as you can. Pay it off as quickly as you can. Buy anything else only when you can actually pay for it. Actually appreciate what you already have.
My husband and I are in our 40s, and the big changes around us seem to echo the ones we are making for personal reasons. We recently paid cash for a used Class B and are looking to streamline and simplify in innumerable ways, so we can spend time doing the things and being with the people who really matter to us.
The RV industry will only die if it does not respond to the fact that we need RVs we can purchase without loans, that we can fill up for much less. Smaller size, lighter weight, using technologies that sip energy instead of gorging on it. RVs in Europe have had to think differently all along, and there are companies here already using fresh thinking (e.g. T@b and T@da trailers).
We and the RV industry will recover, but we will be transformed by the process. And that's a good thing.
Interesting - Seems some feel eveything will turn out OK and some seem to project the end.
Here is what no one is every thinking of. A couple purchased their home 20+ years ago. They may not get $900,000 for it, but they will get $750,000. Since they paid $175,000 for it in 1988, paid down their loan to $65,000 they will walk away with $685,000. The government will let them take $500,000 tax free and they will purchase a $350,000 (discounted price) 40 foot RV. If you think this is a story about one person, guess again. It is the story of thousands of retirees. If you don't believe me, just go to a "high end" RV park and walk around and talk to the people in 38-45 foot RV's. I"ll put my money on the large RV manufacturers making it while the "weekend" camper manufacturers and dealers go under because their client base are indeed the middle class caught in job loss, home loss, and all the other down turns that are going on.
Sure, times are tough. Our economy is in a shambles. But I really believe that RV'ing wil never die. As one poster said, "will the mountains ever go away? Or the birds stop singing? NO!! Life is out there and ready to be lived. I choose to live by using my RV as much as I can. It's a 37' Pace Arrow and as long as I can I will use it to explore, create new adventures and of course, camp. We don't need all the nay-sayers and the Doom and Gloom lemmings to rain on our parade. And you won't.
I am now retired but have worked for a handful of fortune 500 companies over the years. Up close and personal to the various styles of management thereof, I consider your assessment of the RV Industry akin to what I call "pendulum managment". As does a pendulum, management of policies and operating procedules swing from absurd on the one end, to rediculous on the other. No stopping in between the "extremes", just like a pendulum.
Your article, and the assessment of the RV Industry has swung to the extreme... the NEGATIVE extreme. In your words I gleem no hope whatsoever for its survival. Dead! Deceased! No Bailout! No How, No Way! That is ABSURD Professor Jim? I pray you are NOT on Pres. Elect Obama's economic advisory panel (sorry for the sarcasm).
What we all need to do is apply some finite pressure to the pendulae controlling our lives and give the "means" a whirl. Given that there is black and white (two extremes), please take a breath and a closer look, there are an infinite number of shades of gray between those extremes.
The strong will survive, new alliances will emerge, sales will once again rebound and you will have some other catastrophy to apply your traditional pendulum point of view too.
There are a lot of dealers who deserve to go under. My sister and Bro-in-law purchaed a new 38' 5er this spring and it has set in the dealers lot off and on most of the summer with problems. When asked about it they could not get a call back etc. Now they are told the unit has to go back to Heartland in Indiana. The dealer asked "Why are you so fussy!
I've also lived through the bad times in the 80s and although it all turned around this time is much different! so I tend to agree with Jim. I doubt we've even seen the depth of thios one yet.
The US governemnt may bail out the auto industry but why? Who will have jobs to buy the cars? Even the foreign imports that did everything right can't sell enough cars to thrive so how will the US auto industry?
I recently bought a Roadtrek and that company is now closed! I believe in optimism when it's tempered with realism.
Those who survived the 80s didn't do it with their heads in the sand. They did it with a lot of sacrifice and that meant letting go of luxuries.
"Yes the economy is bad. I believe who won the election has a lot to do with businesses laying off and closing.".....Are you in a time warp? 6.5 % Unemployment, and the present economy is during the Bush(wacked) administration. All EIGHT miserable years of it.
Greed has been the at the root of the economic decline and will be the trademark of the the failed RV retailers. IF the RV Manufacturers want to stay solvent during these times of economic downturn then they have to be "buyer appreciative" instead of merely "buyer friendly". I have the cash to purchase a new Sprint chassis class C but refuse to be taken advantage of by my failing local RV dealer. Start pricing units realistically and quit trying to stay solvent by squeezing the life out of those of us who have managed to live a "credit-free" and appropriate lifestyle where we buy what we can afford and nothing more!!!
I think we should all just sit back and wait. Yes the ecomomy is down and lots of companies are in trouble, but the STRONG WILL SURVIVE. The markets will come back and we will look back at all this and say "Those were the tough times but we survived" just like our parents did in the dirty thirties.
Hang on for the ride it has just begun.
I feel sorry for all those that are attempting to make a living in the RV industry. It is indeed tough out there. Times have and are changing. Several articles have been written about the European model for RVing. Smaller RVs purchased for high priced fuel. It seems like their RV parks are doing well and people still RV.
As for us, we have already made a compromise. Although we wanted to trade in our TT for a small class A motor home, we ended up purchasing a Trailmanor. It is only 24 ft long and low profile when we tow it. Then it “opens” up to an equivalent of a 31 foot TT when we camp. Gas millage is a LOT better. We did not give up the dream of RVing in our retirement.
Trailmanor is currently hiring staff.
Economy is base for all we do in life. In our country (Brasil) the RV segment was strongly debilitated by a transit law last 15 years (here we need the E driver license to tow a trailer). The good news in our economy last 2 years have increased the Rv business: it is a pleasure to see my RV friends "upgrading" the old motorhome/trailer or buying a new one. The tendency is the downsizing and the class "C" is the increasing segment. I have migrated from one big RV (12,2 m and 283 HP) to a 9 m / 150 HP. We hope the disturbance in economy may become a passing rain...
We just bought a new 2008 Jayco Designer. We were able to negotiate 37% off the list price. We have purchased several Jaycos in the past and the best we could ever do before was 33%. We couldn't pass up the good deal. The economy is bad, but it will come around. We plan to put our house on the market next spring and see what happens. If we get the price we want, we'll be hitting the road fulltime. We're in our early 50s and agree that life's too short to work to pay for your possessions. Our children are grown and we're ready to shed the baggage and enjoy nature and life.
The economic rough patch will be with us for the 12 months or more, as we will see housing bottom and stabilize and normalcy return to credit markets. Oil prices will seek equilibrium in their trading range. Like a snake who eats a rat, it will take a while to work its way through, but it, too, will pass:)
The current flock of Class C's don't garner enough fuel efficiency to count on them as the solution. More likely, the larger units will convert to Compressed Natural Gas (CNG)to lower the cost and emissions. Most people don't put significant mileage on there RV. As a full timer, I plan on 10-12k miles per year.
I recommend that everyone recall the 1973-74 fuel squeeze. Lots of RV were up for sale, but in time, the crisis passed.
Bob...
The environmentalists are also going to be pushing their Carbon Footprint “belief system” even harder, now that the government is going to be more sympathetic. RVs are still fairly low on the environmentalists’ radar, and aren’t a big issue with them - YET. But if the recently elected regime is able to hold power for several years, RVs could start being hit.
This might mean that RV manufacturers would have to meet fuel-efficiency standards that would exclude manufacturing anything larger than a small Class-B. There could be artificially inflated or taxed fuel prices. There might be gas rationing to so many gallons a month per licensed driver. I hope that it never gets so bad that they start restricting or forbidding existing rigs from being driven at all. I think before it gets too bad, there will be a backlash, and hopefully the pendulum may swing back the other way, more towards personal liberties. Let’s hope so.
Personally, I’ve camped in tents many times, when I was younger. Tents aren’t comfortable if the temperature gets much below 50 F at night, or if it is raining and/or the wind is blowing hard. In a regular campground, I don’t like walking 200 feet or more to get to the rest-room. Tents are OK for staying out a night or two, or for remote places where an RV can’t go. If I’m staying for more than a few days in one spot, tents are miserable. The environmentalists are being unrealistic and unreasonable when they expect older people to give up their RVs and camp in tents.
We just bought our first RV in September and thought that the several RV dealers that we tried to get in contact about the brand we where interested in buying had the worst customer services ever. My emails where never returned, I was given wrong information and walking thru the dealership no one came out to help us, I had to flag a person down to ask questions. It was a shock to us knowing how the industry was hurting and these sales people sure where not helping it get better.
Sold our fiver two years ago, due to old age and no longer using it. Miss the RV life after being part of it for 35 years of pleasure and travels. However, due to today's economy, why would anyone new to RVing get into this activity? Overpriced RVs, overpriced fuel, lack of warranty backup? Who knows where the RV industry is headed, longterm?
Jim, I think your comments are right on the money but lets look at the situation positive. If we quit spending and bury what money we have left, jobs will go away and factories will close. As long as everyone spends things will be great. I have a class A bought last year and would like to downsize but can not afford it due to the drop in what they will give me for my unit. Excellent prices on new ones on the dealers lot but can't afford to give mine away either just to down size. We go as often as possible but take shorted trips due to high fuel pricess. As it comes down will travel further. Can't wait till everything is rosey to travel. Will then be to old and not able to go. So do it while you can. Our new pres elect has all the answers Ha! Ha! Keep the positive attitude and move on down the road. Things will probably get a lot worse before they get better so we will adjust and do things different until it does get better but I won't stop RV'ing.
Isn't it interesting to see the amount of money Camping World is spending on a dead industry? They are taking over the Nascar truck race sponsorship next year and they sponsor numerous Nascar racers. In addition they just purchased a huge piece of property and a dealership of RVs in Ft Myers, Fla.
Why are they spending money on a dead industry? Maybe they know something we don't. We will get through this downturn just like all others but let's all keep a positive attitude.
Bill
Nice way to promote the industry, bite the hand that feeds you, real bright! This Chiken Little mentality is what scares people from buying, why don't you apply at Fox Network, you'd fit right in!!
You won't post the last comment anyway
I hope all the dealers & manufacturers go out of business - then you can service the RV's in your driveway. Then you can say you were right!! Scare everyone into not buying so you can ruin the industry! why don't you talk about low gas prices instead of all the negative things. Sounds like you got stung real good huh?
We live in South Dakota where we haven't yet seen the the brunt of the bad economic conditions. This spring I thought it would be a excellent time to buy a new 5th wheel. With all I heard about rv's not selling ect. I thought I could get a deal of a lifetime on a big rv. Since we work in a campground and only move far a couple of times a year. Boy was I wrong! We went to the biggest city in South Dakota to buy and the rv dealers their were terrible. They simply pointed to the 100 percent inflated sticker price and said that is what they have to have. I about fell over! Evidently there is a lot of rv's still selling up here or the dealers are trying to make all their commission up on what few sales they have. I think this spring or fall we will have to travel to Michigan for a good buy, I see on Ebay that there is a couple of dealers up there that know if you give the customer a deal they will still buy.
After reading through what has been posted, I find that the over whelming view is very simular to mine, in that I too believe that the economy is in the pits, but all of us hardcore RV'ers will find a way to survive. I feel that this is just one way to shake the industry clean, clear out the deadwood (lousy built,overpriced units)and get a new perspective on the business model and go forth and multiply and get some new thinking in the engineering and design departments. Look at new materials that are lighter and more durable (Carbon fiber anyone?) and more caring people who work in the industry. These are not the savors of the industry, but they will go a long way to establish a base for the fruitful contineance of our life style that we love and adore. So will the RV industry collapse? I highly doubt it, not if some common sense is applied to the business model and look around at what is available and ways of doing things. I believe that the strongest and best made units that are fairly priced, those are the manufacterers that will survive. Not cheap and shoddy unit makers.
It will be a while, but mark my word the RV industry will rebound.
I think that the industry will be revitalized with used and reposesssed RVs being sold and revitalized. RVing will continue, but the sales emphasis will be on used models rather than new. There will be a lot of opportunity for RV service companies to do upgrades, modifications and maintenance.
I agree with a couple other posts. If all you "experts" would shut the heck up and quit spouting doom and gloom at every turn, this mess would settle out and life will get back to normal much quicker.
People sure seem to have short memories for past events. It wasn't that long ago (mid 90's) that there was a down turn in stock prices and housing prices in California in particular. In spite of all the doom and gloom, things righted themselves, prices and stocks went back up and life goes on. This, like global warming is a normal cycle of the economy. Shut up and it will right itself quicker.
It will be tough for awhile and we will lose some more familiar RV makers. Remember Midas, GMC, Vixen, Open Road, Xplorer and many more gone or subsumed into other companies? Every couple of decades we seem to go through a time like this. We will continue to survive and have fun in our vintage or orphan RVs, and sooner or later, the industry will regroup and come back with a new breed of RVs for us to love and appreciate. I am rooting for the new Vixen! Ours gets 22 mpg and can be parked anywhere.
We'd planned on buying a Class A this fall. Now we're holding off. I'm concerned about manufacturers going out of business. Where can I find information about how stable various manufacturers happen to be? I'm also concerned about RV dealers here in the Pacific NW who might go out of business.
I can't seem to get my comments posted, but here goes again. Like in Nature, the strong survive and the weak don't. This just may be the economy's way of getting rid of the weak so we have the best to choose from. Let's see if this one gets posted.
People, like me, that really want to RV and have every intention of doing so, will find a way. They may not be able to buy the RV they want but they will get something. I think the only people affected by this unfortunate turn of events will be the folks who wouldn't have dreamed of RVing until they saw that they could buy RVs that had all the comforts of home and then some.
Jan
We have been half timing for 12 years.We bought our 4th motor home in 2000, a new 38 foot gas class A, paid cash for it. We bought another new one in 2006, same make and model. Paid cash for that one,too. Both dealers gave abysmal, shoddy service, and just about everyone in both dealerships lied continually and then lied to cover up lies.
As far as I am concerned they can all go out of business.
you have hit the nail on the head! as a former rv'er & rv employee some of them need to go anyway dealers also. from their underhanded selling tatics to their underhanded service depts. which I hold the factory at fault and for their poor response to promblems that they created. with crappy products with the same promblems over and over again. let them fall 1 by 1, and we all know who is in the number 1 spot here, the wal mart of the rv world.
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